tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post126815062324894613..comments2023-08-03T03:59:01.255-04:00Comments on Democratic Voting Canada: The Stephen Harper story we may never have heardRon Wallerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-1027469500502981652014-04-06T12:10:00.565-04:002014-04-06T12:10:00.565-04:00BTW, here's a link to The Star trashing electo...BTW, here's a link to The Star trashing electoral reform: <a href="http://democraticvotingcanada.blogspot.ca/2014/03/toronto-star-fiercely-against-voting.html" rel="nofollow">DVC: Toronto Star: fiercely against voting reform and real democracy</a> Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-32598606286607549032014-04-06T12:01:25.780-04:002014-04-06T12:01:25.780-04:00Very frustrating. It's been a very painful exp...Very frustrating. It's been a very painful experience watching electoral reform referendums crash and burn over the past decade. <br /><br />I feel betrayed by the Toronto Star and the Liberal party. The Star published 6 anti-PR op-eds which helped torpedo the Ontario PR referendum (and this is supposed to be a progressive paper.) Provincial Liberal parties lured in electoral reformers, then brought in designed-to-fail referendums that put up road blocks to ensure they failed (like the 60% win threshold.)<br /><br />So one of the goals of this blog is to raise awareness of the pitfalls of electoral reform initiatives so we can be better prepared. If we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-55497726524270387752014-04-05T22:08:00.492-04:002014-04-05T22:08:00.492-04:00Points well made. Frustrating isn't it?Points well made. Frustrating isn't it? Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-54583598732205017222014-04-05T16:42:41.350-04:002014-04-05T16:42:41.350-04:00Thanks for your comment. I prefer PR to RBV. It...Thanks for your comment. I prefer PR to RBV. It's used by 85% of developed countries, 87 countries world-wide. But RBV has significant advantages to FPP and should be considered as a fallback plan and first-step in voting reform.<br /><br />For one, RBV is close to proportional for major parties like the Cons, Liberals and NDP. Although it doesn't represent small parties like the Greens whose votes are spread out across the country, it does give them leverage with their alternative votes. Especially in Canada, where the NDP and Liberals will have to compete for them.<br /><br />RBV also moderates the debate; whereas FPP rewards polarizing politics. And it stops extremists like the Cons who lose out on alternative votes. <br /><br />It should also be noted that the NDP and Green parties will be the biggest losers (aside from Canadians) if another PR referendum fails and cements FPP as the democratic choice of Canadians.<br /><br />The corporate-owned media is definitely a huge enemy of PR. This is because corporations can better lobby and influence minority-party dictatorships than multi-party democratic governments (the norm in the developed world.) That is a problem that won't go away.<br /><br />That's why putting RBV on a referendum ballot is very important. It will provide a moving target. E.g., the corporate media will spread lies saying FPP provides "strong stable government" and PR "legislative chaos." But with a 3-way race, there is no dichotomy for them to work with. <br /><br />Last, we will probably need the social media to rise in influence to bring PR to Canada (since the old media is opposed.) So if PR loses too RBV, Canadians will get experience with voting reform and be more open to the idea of PR. That way, more progress can be made on making our system more proportional incrementally. <br /><br />But if a 5th PR referendum goes down in flames, FPP will be heralded as the democratic choice of Canadians and put off a future PR referendum by decades. So a PR/FPP referendum is really a death sentence for electoral reform in Canada (the media will torpedo it and it may require a 60% win threshold on a corrupt precedent.)Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-12230671841204612542014-04-05T16:17:54.759-04:002014-04-05T16:17:54.759-04:00While I like the piece and support your basic supp...While I like the piece and support your basic suppositions, I think that support of preferred ballot within this context is problematic. For although such a move would, indeed, be an electoral reform, the results are not necessarily that much more democratic than FPTP. Preference of a 'second choice' would arguably be at least nominally more representative. But I would prefer a government that reflects the people's choice, not their second choice. Don't get me wrong, I understand the argument and I would prefer some reform to no reform at all. But I also believe that the failures of referendums regarding PR are themselves skewed because the establishment opposes PR so strongly. In other words, it is precisely because money and power play such a significant role in our "democratic" system that people make many of the choices that they do, including what kind of democratic reforms they may favour. Kirbycairohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528654183160305877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-24422872269066668392014-04-05T15:11:27.140-04:002014-04-05T15:11:27.140-04:00Although I think everyone should sign the declarat...Although I think everyone should sign the declaration of voters rights, I won't join Fair Vote Canada because they don't represent Canadians on voting reform.<br /><br />Canadians are divided between proportional representation and ranked ballot voting. But Fair Vote wages a war against ranked ballot voting.<br /><br />It should be up to Canadians to choose which voting system we have. If both options are not on a voting-reform referendum ballot, FPTP will win a false majority because of invisible-option vote splitting.<br /><br />That's where people opt for the status quo (FPTP) and wait for a chance to support their preferred system. So far 5 two-way referendums have failed in Canada and the UK (4 provincial PR referendums in Canada; 1 RBV referendum in the UK.)Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-34776305647913226802014-04-05T15:02:04.051-04:002014-04-05T15:02:04.051-04:00Thanks. I'll try.Thanks. I'll try.Ron Wallerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08120060083437508997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6257578024925559189.post-31432225214247313442014-04-05T14:01:50.728-04:002014-04-05T14:01:50.728-04:00great piece - neither strident nor patronizing . ....great piece - neither strident nor patronizing . . . Thanks. I've posted it to FB. Please keep working like this; you're good at it.Pseudzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01147800184506558966noreply@blogger.com